Curse

cce · Mar 06, 2005, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xma

As was explained several times in this same thread

I don't care where it is explained in this thread. I'm not a newbie. What I care about is where it is explained in the official skill descriptions. And the point i'm making is that they are ambiguous in this regard, and therefore should be fixed. Everyone in this thread keeps asserting that hex and enchantments are spells, but have not quoted relevant documentation to back up their claim. Similarly, that traps are not spells seems to also be resting on intuitive thinking, and not on verifable skill descriptions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xma

while they're being cast, skills listed as spells, enchantments and hexes are spells. Other skills aren't.

Please point me to specific, official skill descriptions that say so. The only "spell" I can see is Fireball and the like (hexes and enchantments don't talk about being spells). But regardless, what about nature rituals? or traps? Just like hexes and enchantments they don't say anything about being a spell, yet they have a "cast" time, are you sure they are not spells? (aka, are they affected by arcane conundrum?).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellestar

There are chances that Damage-dealing spells are attack skills. Maybe he attacked with a wand and triggered Empathy but he thought that it's a spell. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

I proposed a model in a bug report. Skills are given one and only one category, such as Hex, Enchantment, Trap, Stance, or my addition, Invocation. And then each of these categories are given attributes such as 'Spell' or 'Attack'. Alternaitvely, each skill listed should have a set of boolean Y/N flags to say if they are considered attack, spell, or what not. My contribution to this thread was suggesting that Fireball and such were 'Invocation's (a word I was proposing in parallel to Hex or Enchantment), so that the word 'Spell' could be used, unambiguously, as a way to mark each skill category. As it stands, Spell is used ambiguously by the skill descriptions; sometimes as a particular kind-of-skill, explicitly provided in the skill's definition -- othertimes as an intuitive grouping of skill categories (aka, all enchantments and hexes are spells).

How do I make this more clear? Consider the sentance: "Hexes and Enchantments are not attacks, but Spells are." that appears in the same post (in RPG forums) with one that talks about hexes being spells. How confusing/contradictory is that. Hence, how about just calling the non-hex, non-enchantment spells 'invocation' and say that Invocation spells are considerd attacks, while hexes or enhancements arn't.

Xapti · Mar 07, 2005, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Think of it like this: If it says it's a spell, it's a spell. If It says it's an enchantment it is an enchantment. If it says it's an Enchantment spell (all "enchantments" are like this) it is both a spell and an enchantment escentially.
The same thing applies for hexes. (and no I'm not saying Rend enchantments will work as a spell interrupt :P)
Spells without the word "hex" or "enchantment" before it are just plain spells (without the hex or enchant specialization). Anything else, like mentioned in the heirachy is not a spell! (glyphs, rituals, stances, signets, etc.)
This is how FireMarshal's commented skill (mantra of something) can still work on spells such as hex spells and enchantment spells.

One could also say that when it's being worded, "hex" is an adjective and "spell" is a noun, so "hex spell" = "spell", just like a hungry cat = a cat nonetheless, the fact that it's hungry is just a qualifying adjective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellestar

http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=324607
There are chances that Damage-dealing spells are attack skills. Maybe he attacked with a wand and triggered Empathy but he thought that it's a spell. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

(not viewing that link (and don't plan to), but I can guess what it's about)There's always a chance of something... but I think it's unlikely any normal spell would be considered an attack skill, because casting a spell does not = attacking by at least my definition of "attacking". The only thing in common is that they both deal damage.
It's certianly also possible that just one or more skills aren't doing what they are supposed to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cce

Everyone in this thread keeps asserting that hex and enchantments are spells, but have not quoted relevant documentation to back up their claim.

It's called experience, not only do non-alphas know this from experience that this is in fact, fact, but the alphas play this game alot and their word is very reliable most of the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cce

How do I make this more clear? Consider the sentance: "Hexes and Enchantments are not attacks, but Spells are." that appears in the same post (in RPG forums) with one that talks about hexes being spells. How confusing/contradictory is that. Hence, how about just calling the non-hex, non-enchantment spells 'invocation' and say that Invocation spells are considerd attacks, while hexes or enhancements arn't.

I am not going to visit that site unless I certianly have to, But let me tell you this: Just the fact that one person said that in RPG forums does not make it true. In fact many many inexperienced people post on ALL boards, but I find the larger more generic game sites forums' have even more inexperienced people. Sausaletus Rex, a long time Guild Wars fan, who's very knowledgable as well as an alpha tester, is a reliable source who will most likely tell you that is wrong. What kind of reliablility does that other person have?
Like I said, even if one or more spells were counted as attack skills, it's possible it was just a glitch in ethier the triggering spell, or the trigger skill.

And cce you should stop calling enchantment spells and hex spells hexes and enchantments, when they are actually "hex spells" and "enchantment spells". My first two paragraphs adress this. Considering that you calssified hex and Enchantment one of hte primary types, And Attack or spell secondary types, it Seems you are registering hex/enchantment as a noun and not an adjective?

Xma · Mar 07, 2005, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Sorry for the misunderstanding cce, but your point wasn't clear between you not knowing the mechanic, or blaming the descriptions.

I agree with you that it should be better explained in the skill descriptions, and your categorization sounds valid.

Now, we all know skill descriptions are lying

and need a complete revamp, mainly by a standardization/QA team.

Ensign · Mar 07, 2005, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by cce

Well, in the last Beta, I was using "interrupts a spell" very successfully when people were casting a hex or enhancement.

You were countering "Enchantment Spells" and "Hex Spells".

I just checked and the skill descriptions of "Hex Spells" and "Enchantment Spells" on this site are all off. A skill like Backfire is type "Hex Spell", not type 'Hex'. That's a mistake on the site that I'll have to fix - but rest assured that it isn't a mistake in the game.

Is that where the confusion came from?

The distinction *is* important, I might add. There is absolutely nothing stopping arena.net from creating 'Enchantment Signet' or 'Bow Attack Hex' or orther similar types of skills in the future. These work exactly as you'd expect them to.

Peace,
-CxE